Need judgement on my reverb plz. :)

[Sp3ctre18]

Ok, so i've been trying to work with free reverb plugins and get the most realistic sound possible. Naturally, i'm a noob, i dunno exactly how to modify everything, and for someone reason, when it comes to my own music, i guess because i'm already convinced / know it doesn't sound as realistic as it could, i can't ever find anything that sounds real enough, and i keep tending make the reverb effect too noticeable? Anyway, so I need some help. I've got Ambience, Glaceverb, and SIR. I've pretty much scrapped ambience because glace and SIR seem more realistic.

So, I have two versions of one of my latest pieces for you guys to listen to. I'd like you to please tell me which sounds like it has the best reverb plugin, and then, how would you modify it to make it sound as real as possible.

note: tracks were bounced to audio DRY; did not use the EWQL reverb; also, the tracks are exactly the same except that the first one has an improved/fixed up harpsichord passage
SIR v1.011 settings:
Large stage + Hall
all settings default except for: DRY: halfway between -7.2 & - 3.1; WET: -3.1

http://www.mediamax.com/sp3ctre18/Ho...Unfold%201.mp3

GLACEVERB settings:
a slightly modifies version of the "classic - large theater" preset.


http://www.mediamax.com/sp3ctre18/Ho...Unfold%202.mp3

My personal thoughts: I think I like the sound result of SIR overall, but it made the piano's verb sound kind of weird i think, especially near the beginning; also, SIR slightly unbalanced my instrument volume levels; a few instruments are slightly quieter than they should be, making a noticeable and important difference. Glaceverb has a good sound, made the piano sound nice, and I have nothing against it; i may have turned the WET dial up a bit too much?

your thought please; i keep writing new pieces so i'd really like the help on using reverb. sett

[Sp3ctre18]

hey, come on please; 30 views and no replies? I need some help with this reverb stuff!

[persentio]

We can't really decide which reverb module will be better for you since you are the one who understands your music the best. Perhaps some of us may prefer Brand A reverb which really takes the cake for our music OR because we have grown accustomed to using it; however in the end Brand B reverb may be the one which you really need.

I'll do what I can to make the recommendation... I preferred the track with Glaceverb.

[benwalken]

The second one is too wet, if I to chose I would go for the first one.

Do you apply reverb after you finish composing?!

[Sp3ctre18]

Ben, I guess so. I apply the reverb after I mix everything down to one audio track.

persentio, I understand, but i was hoping i'd get help from all ye music experts here and tell more what sounds more realistic. :P I mean, I can listen to someone else's piece (ie, your string quartet thing I commented on) and be like "wow, that's good, that really sounds like a recording," and because of hos it sounds, not the instrument patches themselves, but overall with the reverb and stuff. But I can't do that as easily with myself because i'm the one tweaking the reverb, trying these two different ones. Unlike listening to other people's stuff where i hear only one specific reverb setting and can go "that sounds real," i'm dealing with wetness sliders and all that and am having a hard time deciding what to use.

I understand that most people will like whatever they use and what is best for their music, but that's why i put the links to my pieces, so people can tell me if they think it sounds good or not.

I know there's a lot of other topics here and stuff, but please some comment or help people? I was kinda expecting some more, and you don't have to listen to the whole piece, o just skip through it i don't know. Again, I'm looking for which one sounds best (i know the glaceverb one is too wet) and whatever other comments or help you have on making it sound the best i can. Or is there something else, some other part of a procedure I should do? I don't know....

[remmet]

Originally Posted by Sp3ctre18

I apply the reverb after I mix everything down to one audio track.

. . . Or is there something else, some other part of a procedure I should do? I don't know....

I'll try to respond to your questions, but in an indirect way. There are some basic issues that you might want to address before deciding between two reverbs.

First, applying reverb to a bounced mix is not the best approach because every element in the mix gets the same amount and type of reverb. I think most people bus individual track sends (with individual send levels) to one or more reverb units on a separate aux track. This enables you to control the amount of reverb for individual tracks. For instance, a cymbal roll might not need as much (or any) reverb as an oboe solo. In this way, the reverb - and similarly any other effects - becomes an integral part of the mix.

The other issue impacting how reverb sounds is the composition and orchestration of your piece. Without going into a lot of detail, I noticed that your piece seemed to have multiple elements going on that didn't always blend well together. For instance, there were a number of long held overlapping notes, some persistent rhythmic/ostinato elements, and some melodic elements all happening at the same time in such a way as to create a blur that diluted the clarity of the big picture. Adding reverb to this amalgam just creates more blur. (By the way, there were many things about the composition that I liked.)

So overall, if you were willing to look at those two issues, you'd probably be in a better position to evaluate reverb plug-ins.

Richard
www.richardemmet.com

[iLoked]

Hi.

I liked the second one (Glaceverb) better, even if it´s a bit too wet. Yet again, that is just a ones personal opinion. And I liked that music aswell, very nice score.

"Signed by the man, who always overreverbs his music!

[Sp3ctre18]

Originally Posted by remmet

First, applying reverb to a bounced mix is not the best approach because every element in the mix gets the same amount and type of reverb. I think most people bus individual track sends (with individual send levels) to one or more reverb units on a separate aux track. This enables you to control the amount of reverb for individual tracks. For instance, a cymbal roll might not need as much (or any) reverb as an oboe solo. In this way, the reverb - and similarly any other effects - becomes an integral part of the mix.

Wow.... that makes sense, but, can you say CPU overkill? Not to mention making things more tedious since that would mean mixing each track down to audio first. I'll try it out though.

and yeah, a lot of times my music does have a mix of sustained notes, ostinato, etc., and yeah, i some of it gets blurred. Again, it's probably because i'm still only just getting into adding reverb and am overdoing it...need to remember i have to keep it more subtle.

Anyway, thank you both of you for the comments, and especially remmet for the advice. Thanks a lot!

[Kaatza_Music]

I like the first one best. The second one is way too wet.

If you put the same amount of reverb on everything it comes out mushy. As mentioned before, you should be able to set up Sends to an Aux bus so you can control the amount of reverb each instrument gets. You can even have more than one Send and Aux bus and have two or more reverbs with different settings/sound. I don't use a lot of reverb on the lower-mids and bottom end (except for percussion of course) as it tends to muddy up the mix.

And why would you have to mix every track down to audio in order to add reverb? What DAW are you using? I am sure that all of the major DAWs have the ability to use Sends and Auxiliary Buses.

I come from the "less is better" school, so I tend to like things a little drier. Since I have gotten Platinum XP, I have been using the different mike positions a lot. I know some people delete the release trails, but personally I like the built in hall sound of EWQLSO.

I bought Izotope Ozone 3 a few months ago for mastering and it has really made a big difference and it is pretty inexpensive. It adds that final 5% of polish to the mix.

Very nice piece BTW, I would like to hear it with a really good mix!

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Sp3ctre18

Wow.... that makes sense, but, can you say CPU overkill? Not to mention making things more tedious since that would mean mixing each track down to audio first. I'll try it out though.

and yeah, a lot of times my music does have a mix of sustained notes, ostinato, etc., and yeah, i some of it gets blurred. Again, it's probably because i'm still only just getting into adding reverb and am overdoing it...need to remember i have to keep it more subtle.

Anyway, thank you both of you for the comments, and especially remmet for the advice. Thanks a lot!

You are mistaken actually. To put reverb on different tracks doesn't mean CPU overkill right away. In fact you only need 2 different reverbs, let's say one plate and one large hall reverb. Both have to be set up on an AUX-BUS, one BUS for each reverb (means 2 Busses though..) Kompakt makes use of multiple outputs, 8 outs per instance (but your host has to provide support for multi-out-VSTs). Now you have to decide which instrument groups go on which output, there after mix one by one output seperately by applying reverb to the output via your 2 AUX-Send-Returns.

Reverb does not only create "space", it gives you the ability to create differentiation in the mix. Couldn't be more specific, you need to understand essential mixing techniques - a good start is "The Mixing Engineer's Handbook" from Bobby Owsinski.