Should I Switch to Sibelius and get Cubase?

[ChemicalReaper]

I'm currently a Finale user. I always have been. My school uses Finale. I've convinced myself that Finale is awesome.

But... I have noticed that many people here use Sibelius. There are constant debates over which program is better. Many people say that Sibelius is easier to use than Finale.

Recently I tried to score a film clip using Finale. Needless to say, I found it difficult. Oh, and I'm getting fed up with having to load up a ton of samples every time I want to create a new document.

Do you guys think I should switch to Sibelius? If I switched, I'd want to do so soon... while I can still claim an educational discount for being a student.

To alleviate the frustration of loading up a million samples in every Finale document and to make writing for StormDrum 2 a little easier (the sounds are all over the place!), I'm thinking about getting Cubase. Would that be a wise investment? Is it easier to use a sequencer if you want to use products like StormDrum 2? Does a sequencer make it any easier to quickly throw together scores for films with a short deadline?

Why do many of you have a program like Finale/Sibelius and a sequencer like Cubase? What exactly do you use Cubase for? And what are advantages of Sibelius over Finale (other than really awesome-looking engraving, which, yes, is fairly important to me)?

Thanks in advance for your help guys - want to know what I'm getting myself into before I spend another $700 on tech! (Shit... I still owe my parents the money for Finale and my computer...)

- James (coz I'm tired of people keep calling me 'chem' )

[peter5992]

Yes, you should change to Sibelius. But that's just my personal opinion, with no experience with Finale.

But here's a couple of points you might consider:

1. I don't have to load millions of samples. I just plug in Play, load whatever library I want, and bang away. SD2, SD2 pro, whatever.
2. Sibelius comes with Daniel - He Who Knows Everything. This is not official but it is a fact.
3. Sibelius has a fantastic chat page with brilliant and knowledgeable people from around the globe, ready to deal with whatever you want to ask.

I create all of my music in Sibelius. When it comes to rendering to audio I use Reaper to get the max audio quality. I'd like to skip this step, and I keep pestering Daniel on that point (who wisely ignores me).

My $ 0.02.

[Daryl]

If you are happy using Finale, then there is no compelling reason to change. There are still a couple of things that Finale does better than Sibelius. However, most of the new features for Finale 2010 have been in Sibelius for a while (some for over 10 years, AFAIK), and there are features, such as Magnetic Layout, that Finale users can only sit and weep over.

Regarding using Sibelius and Cubase, it is very simple. Sibelius has playback facilities, as does Finale. However, neither of them are sequencers, so it is very difficult, and much more time consuming, to get a decent performance from both of them. It also makes sense when you get into detailed programming, divisi or layering.

D

[ChemicalReaper]

So you're saying that regardless of whether I use Finale or Sibelius, it would be a good idea to invest in Cubase?

For Cubase 5, they have two versions - Cubase and Cubase Studio. Apart from the ~$300 price difference, is there anything vitally important in the more expensive version?

[Daryl]

Originally Posted by ChemicalReaper

So you're saying that regardless of whether I use Finale or Sibelius, it would be a good idea to invest in Cubase?

For Cubase 5, they have two versions - Cubase and Cubase Studio. Apart from the ~$300 price difference, is there anything vitally important in the more expensive version?

If you are serious about going into the production of music for Media, then yes, you should get Cubase. As to which version, I believe that there are some seemingly stupid limitations in the Studio version, but in any case I would recommend getting the full version, but paying an Academic price.

D

[MidtownTraffic]

I use Sibelius and I think it's pretty good. I have tons of problems with legato indications going right through notes, dynamic markings clashing with notes, etc. Overall I think it's better than Finale. I was thinking of switching to Finale and found it so complicated I decided to just deal with whatever problems Sibelius has. It could also just be my computer because it's so old (upgrading soon though).

In terms of Cubase I haven't used it, but another option would be REAPER, which I'm planning to use until I can afford Cubase (or maybe I'll keep using it, I'll have to see) because it is only $60 and very good.

[ChemicalReaper]

One of the main reasons I'm thinking of switching over to Sibelius is the availability of, I think it's Jon's (?), sound set that prepares the document to be used with PLAY. If that works, it could make my life a lot easier than trying to figure out how to do everything in Finale.

[MidtownTraffic]

Originally Posted by ChemicalReaper

One of the main reasons I'm thinking of switching over to Sibelius is the availability of, I think it's Jon's (?), sound set that prepares the document to be used with PLAY. If that works, it could make my life a lot easier than trying to figure out how to do everything in Finale.

Realize that in Sibelius unless you have a bunch of slaves it's impossible to load a full orchestra (from what I've heard at least). Although I have little firsthand experience with PLAY I've gathered a lot of knowledge from this forum and am quite sure that it is impossible to run a full orchestra (for film scoring or other uses) on one computer. Maybe with freezing tracks and pasting to audio, but Sibelius doesn't have any feature like that until the final export function.

[jloving]

Originally Posted by ChemicalReaper

One of the main reasons I'm thinking of switching over to Sibelius is the availability of, I think it's Jon's (?), sound set that prepares the document to be used with PLAY. If that works, it could make my life a lot easier than trying to figure out how to do everything in Finale.

There is still some setup required, however the sound sets will get you writing much faster than if they weren't available.

I would personally recommend that you still pick up a sequencer. Write in Sibelius, do your mixing and nitty-gritty MIDI tweaking, recording, etc in the proper application. There's definitely a reason both types of programs are still selling, each one has a distinct purpose, and while each does touch on the strength of the other one (sequencers have a 'notation' view, and notation programs playback) neither is exceptionally good at what the other does.

Sound sets for the entire PLAY line will be done (3 more are in development right now, in fact) however I would caution you on switching for playback purposes alone. That, to me, is not enough reason to switch programs - because that's what Cubase, or Logic, or Sonar, or whatever is for. If you are unhappy with Finale from a notation aspect (and honestly I don't see how any Finale users aren't unhappy, but then I suppose I'm just slightly biased ) then consider switching.

There is a demo version of Sib 6 available, download it try it out for a few weeks - there will be a bigger learning curve coming from Finale than if you had started with Sib straightaway because you'll need to adjust to different shortcut keys and other keyboard mappings, but that's the best way to get a handle on it and compare.

For my money (and yours as well, consider there is a greatly reduced crossgrade price should you decide to switch) Sibelius is the better choice. Not because Finale is terrible - it's certainly not - but because of the way the user interacts with Sibelius, how the program sits on the screen etc. It's a very uncluttered interface, hiding alot of power behind simple, well thought out, easily used tools as opposed to the huge menu and pallet systems (I think they're called pallets - it's been a long time, lol) Finale uses.

It would seem that Sibelius has the edge when it comes to technical support/customer service as well - though I base that on user response and conversations I've had with Finale users over the years, on the whole it's probably a 'small sample size' situation and may not be the most accurate gauge. What I do know is that I can email the Sib folks and have an answer 9 times out of 10 within 30 minutes...and that's despite the fact that I use the program on an unsupported OS.

BUT - in the end - they both print some damn fine sheet music, so it has to come down to which you are more comfortable working with.

Originally Posted by MidtownTraffic

Realize that in Sibelius unless you have a bunch of slaves it's impossible to load a full orchestra (from what I've heard at least). Although I have little firsthand experience with PLAY I've gathered a lot of knowledge from this forum and am quite sure that it is impossible to run a full orchestra (for film scoring or other uses) on one computer. Maybe with freezing tracks and pasting to audio, but Sibelius doesn't have any feature like that until the final export function.

With jBridge I can load ridiculously large templates while working in Sibelius - including all 4 multis I've included with the EWQLSO [Play] sound sets. I've also programmed an entire string section ground up for a client in Kontakt (note these are not EW sounds, but nonetheless) and it's sitting around 6GB and is perfectly loadable within Sib, when jBridge is added to the mix.

So, provided you are running 64bit, and your drives are up to it, it is entirely possible to run a full orchestra straight out of Sib. The sound sets are also written to accommodate users working with a farm setup, with presets included for FXTeleport, MOL, etc for those in that situation. 32bit users are pretty well stuffed if not using a multiple PC setup, but the 64bit folks do have some options.

Jon

[riaosorio]

As someone who has used both Finale and Sibelius (4 years using Sibelius and 4 years using Finale), these are the stuff I've experienced:

Sibelius:
- more intuitive interface
- easier to learn

Finale:
- deeper customization; very useful if you will want to work as an engraver/copyist
- I like the layout options way better than Sibelius
- steeper learning curve.

In a way, it can be like the Mac vs. PC debate. One is easier to use right out of the box, but the other can be customized better. Your choice depends on your needs.

I switched to Finale because that was the software being used at the company I came to work for, as an orchestrator. After four years of working with it, I could say that if one program could do something better than the other, the difference isn't that remarkable enough to make switching to the other program worth it (considering the learning curve).

If you're already adept in Finale, it's easier to switch to Sibelius, than vice versa. For my friends who are used to Sibelius and tried Finale, they really couldn't get their head around Finale. I was only able to do it because I had a real pressing need to do so.

To those of you in the US: How true is it that Finale is enjoying more market share because it got into the game before Sibelius? I mean, don't more publishing houses, copyists and engravers use Finale, and can't be bothered to switch to another notation program? This is just a rumor I've overheard.