Please clarify: arranger, orchestrator, music-preparator, ghostwriter

[nostaller]

Hi @ all,

just a little question to get a better overview of how music production in USA works ... I was just wondering looking at the credits of the first "Pirates of the Caribbean" movie: What are 6 orchestrator actually working on ?

Ok I will make the following up... maybe somebody could throw in some words to agree or disagree if i totally mess it up in my understanding:

1. Klaus Badelt is composer and arranger. He scores on a sequencer and presents the cues to the director/production. His scores are already arranged for a big orchestra only in Logic.

2. Afterwards he gives each midi file to the orchestrator. In this example 6 orchestrator are involved to get the parts into finale/sibelius and write lines, lyrics, adjust technically impossible score parts e.t.c . Why so many orchestators, since there is only 1 composer ?

3. Then the individual parts are checked, printed and reproduced by the music-preparattion department.

4. A ghostwriter is sometimes involved and composes for the original composer. I am not shure if there was one for this movie but anyways: He is usually never mentioned in the credits. Doesn't this violate against the copyright laws?

Thanks for your help,
Cheers, nostaller

[johncarter]

There are no ghost-writers on pirates of the caribbean, only writers. Since they're all mentioned in the end credits.

It's not a surprise to see so many guys involved since Alan Silvestri was fired from POTC , and mediaventures had only 2 weeks to score it !

[nostaller]

Originally Posted by johncarter

There are no ghost-writers on pirates of the caribbean, only writers. Since they're all mentioned in the end credits.

It's not a surprise to see so many guys involved since Alan Silvestri was fired from POTC , and mediaventures had only 2 weeks to score it !

wow 2 WEEKS ? that would explain something ... ALan Silvetri and getting fired ... If he gets fired, what can I expect from my FUTURE ?

[A.Leung]

There are many ghost writers involved on many big budget and low budget productions. I don't know about 'Pirates' as per say. You will never know about many of the ghost writers on films as they are not given credit nor do they share in royalties, they are simply paid.

[mezzoforte]

Originally Posted by nostaller

A ghostwriter is sometimes involved and composes for the original composer. I am not shure if there was one for this movie but anyways: He is usually never mentioned in the credits.

No, at least not as ghostwriter. It's a dirty deal, to be sure, for both the pimp and the bimbo. But then, to credit ghostwriting would beat its own purpose, no? Ghostwriting has been invented in order to actually avoid giving credits, so that the composer works less while getting all the credits, on top of royalties, future gigs, honor, and all.

[scntfc]

i was asked to ghostwrite for someone recently. it wasn't even an "i don't have time" excuse but rather "i don't know how to write this style". i felt like giving him the what for, but instead politely declined the work. to me its completely unethical, but their nonchalance in asking me made it seem like a common occurrence. any members here do any ghostwriting?

[A.Leung]

We do it here a lot. And I've seen ghostwriters get called in for MANY composers. If you dont want to do it then dont. But the reality is ghostwriting takes place for many reasons. Either the main composer is too busy or he's heard something a friend did that would work in a film he's scoring or countless other reasons.

If your asked to ghost write and cant get credit or royalties then ask for more money. THeres nothing really odd about it. Your getting paid to write - whats wrong with that?

Where it becomes unethical is if your PROMISED more than the money and it doesn't happen. Or your promised royalties and it doesn't happen. Its up to 2 things: 1.) The Law as it pertains to the situation and 2.) Your contract.

[scntfc]

Originally Posted by A.Leung

If your asked to ghost write and cant get credit or royalties then ask for more money. THeres nothing really odd about it. Your getting paid to write - whats wrong with that?

1. ghostwritten cues earn writer's royalties for someone who did not actually write the music.
2. further licensing...does the ghostwriter get compensated if the music gets licensed for further use?
3. if the director and producer assume X is writing the music, but its actually Y, then X is misrepresenting the work and more likely than not breaking a contract.
4. on the opposite side, it seems like the hiring composer could run into trouble too...e.g. wouldn't they want a contract stating the ghostwriter's surrendering of rights? and if such an document exists, if it were to surface further down the road it seems like it could harm their reputation.

"everybody does it" doesn't make it okay, and "getting paid to write" doesn't make it okay if that pay is inequitable. the statement "there's nothing really odd about it" is probably quite true, though... in a 'quid pro quo' environment where composers are exchanging ghostwriting services amongst each other it wouldn't seem to be an issue.

btw i hope i don't come off as confrontational, i do appreciate your reply and insight into "how it's done". i'm solid on where things stand ethically, but am genuinely curious as to how much it goes on. and i do know a bit about questionable ethics as most of my work is in advertising!

[A.Leung]

Lol. You asked a question and I'm just answering it to the best of my knowledge.

1.) Yes
2.) No - not usually
3.) Not necessarily. Many times a composer will TELL the producers that someone else wrote cue labeled "Xx-xx-xx" Depending upon his relationship with that producer the producer may or may not care.
4.) Yes many times there are contracts between both composers. It would be silly and unadvisable to NOT have one. (IMHO)

It goes on quite a bit - for better or for worse.

BTW and just for the record - the ethical composers go to the production company and usually ask the production company to enter into a separate contract with composer 'X' if its a matter of a cue or two. That way everyones happy. The main composer is not misrepresenting anything and the composer 'X' gets his deal (maybe additional music by credit) and royalties.

[mezzoforte]

Originally Posted by scntfc

3. if the director and producer assume X is writing the music, but its actually Y, then X is misrepresenting the work

Misrepresenting the work, yes. Like writing on a can of pork meat: Made in France, when it's actually made in China; and not of pork but dog meat.
Misrepresenting the country. And the pig.
Misrepresenting the work and the pork.
Bon appetit.