[DanEckert]

I just recognized some interesting similarities between Harry Gergson-Williams' soundtrack for Kingdom of Heaven (which is one of my favorites) and his soundtrack for The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe which was his next soundtrack after Kingdom of Heaven. I always thought James Horner was the guy who was a bit self-repetitive, but obviously Harry can do it too

Here are some comparisons between Kingdom of Heaven (KOH) and The Chronicles of Narnia (TCON):
In the following examples the music is EXACTLY the same!
The links link directly to the particular passages in YouTube videos of the soundtracks.


"The King" (KOH) 3:37 - 3:52 link and "The Battle" (TCON) 1:15 - 1:31 link

"The Battle of Kerak" (KOH) 0:00 - 0:11 link and "The Battle" (TCON) 0:22 - 0:30 link

"My Lord" (KOH Complete Recordings) 3:09 - 3:30 (sorry no link) and "Only the Beginning of the Adventure" (TCON) 1:01 - 1:10 link


What do you think of that? Should a composer reuse good themes and movements like that or should he try to come up with something completely different every single time?

And by the way, what do you think of James Horner's four-note motif for evil that he uses in almost every score he writes (for example the first four notes of this piece - link - or of this one - link - or this one - link )? Trademark or annoying self-reference?

[A.Leung]

Many times a composers past score is temped into a new picture and he doesnt have much choice. Bill Conti was accused of lifting from Holst's planet but Kaufman (the director of "The Right Stuff") told him to since the picture was temped with Holst.

All composers 'steal' from themselves. Its inevitable. The ones that are annoying are the ones that take note for note some theme they've used in a previous film. It wrecks your movie experience by ripping you out of the movie your watching and propelling you into a different film. It crashes your suspension of disbelief temporarily. James Horner is great for that.

[johncarter]

Honestly, I dont have any problems with Horner. His scoring is so effective, to me. and his orchestrations are so refined, that some re-used themes are not a problem. I still prefer a guy like Horner, than all these "young generation" film composers who absolutely dont know what a theme is and only know how to make sound design / ambient film scores without any personality

[mezzoforte]

Originally Posted by DanEckert

What do you think of that? Should a composer reuse good themes and movements like that or should he try to come up with something completely different every single time?

A composer should do whatever he thinks to best serve his own interest.

Trademark or annoying self-reference?

Call it what you want, but what it really is, is: film scoring.

[DanEckert]

I agree with johncarter. Actually I like James Horner's style a lot. It is just that I sometimes have the feeling of listening to two or more of his soundtracks at the same time
But I think especially his earlier works in the 90s are pure genius. Legends of the Fall, Apollo 13 or Glory have such great and memorable themes and are very inteligently composed.


I also think Harry Gregson-Williams is certainly one of the best "Zimmer scholars" and really knows how to write effective music. His score for Kingdom of Heaven is one of my favorites. I just noticed the little similarities and found it interesting.

[paulwr]

Who better to steal from than yourself? Just settle with yourself out of court to save $....................

Harry Gregson-Williams I agree is one of the best out of camp Zimmer. I wish I had that much under my belt to steal from.

-Paul

[ChemicalReaper]

Originally Posted by paulwr

Harry Gregson-Williams I agree is one of the best out of camp Zimmer. I wish I had that much under my belt to steal from.

I wish I could attend Camp Zimmer and Camp (Early) Elfman. Early Danny Elfman scores have such a distinct and memorable sound, yet they sound similar.

Nothing wrong with reusing your themes, especially if your boss tells you to!

[composeralex]

An apocraphal story:

Someone (a reporter, I think) once commented to Bernard Herrman that two of his scores sounded very similar, to which he responded, "That's because the same person wrote them, you fool!"

[belcadenza]

Hey, what's new? I sometimes wonder how wide the smirks are on some movie composer's faces while they recycle their music in new projects. Zap through a line-up of Zimmer's adventure tracks and you know what I mean. Staying in the same key as well, to makes it even easier to copy old midi files into new bins for a new score mock-up. I'm not going to give you examples... I think you'd agree just from a gut feeling while listening. I guess it's inevitable for those busy writers to fall into recycling with those devilish deadlines. The directors know that the composer's music will add value to their film and the fans get to swallow big chunks of the same music, time after time. But whaddaheck.. what about Bach.... or Springsteen... ? Now we're talking kickin out the same old tune again and again.. as I said .. what's new? Best, Lennart

[DanEckert]

Yes, Bach, Händel and pretty much every other classical composer reused music not only from themselves, but also from others. As Igor Stravinsky said: "A good composer does not imitate, he steals."

I think without making references to his own earlier works it would be almost impossibe for a composer to develop his own style. It's the similar sound of his music that makes him recognizable. Take John Williams, for example. His fanfares, sweeping romantic themes and his layered action music are unmistakable.