Why vintage mics for sampling?

[wurlygreg]

I see that vintage mics were used for recording the samples for Quantum Leap Pianos.
What is the reason for this? I would have thought that for sampling, one would want the very cleanest, uncoloured recordings as possible, and surely modern high tech mics would be superior for this. For example, if the vintage mics introduce a bit of warm distortion, the last thing we would want would be for this colouring to be in each and every sample, because when the samples were summed together, there would be too much of this effect, compared to how the instrument would have sounded if it were recorded normally through the same microphones.
I do understand, though, that if the colouring is linear in nature, then it doesn't matter.

Thanks,
Greg.

[Doug Rogers]

Originally Posted by wurlygreg

I see that vintage mics were used for recording the samples for Quantum Leap Pianos.
What is the reason for this? I would have thought that for sampling, one would want the very cleanest, uncoloured recordings as possible, and surely modern high tech mics would be superior for this. For example, if the vintage mics introduce a bit of warm distortion, the last thing we would want would be for this colouring to be in each and every sample, because when the samples were summed together, there would be too much of this effect, compared to how the instrument would have sounded if it were recorded normally through the same microphones.
I do understand, though, that if the colouring is linear in nature, then it doesn't matter.

Thanks,
Greg.

We use the "best sounding" mics. We have a huge collection of mics at EW Studios, both vintage and modern, and with few exceptions the vintage mics deliver the sound we're looking for. And not just us, if I look at the mic request list from outside engineers working in our studios on a daily basis, the vintage mics are their first choice.

Most of todays mics are made for a price (many in China with cheap components), the original vintage mics these were copied from were made without compromise, and have been maintained with mostly new components, so they are not "old", just an "old" design when sound quality, and not price, was the only thing that mattered.

One exception is the pair of NU-47s I acquired just recently from Martin Kantola, a superb developer of audio recording equipment from Finland that were recommended to me by Bruce Swedien. When Bruce told me about the NU-47 (a variation of the Neumann U-47), he had one, Bjork had one, and Martin had the only other one. I talked Martin into making us a pair (he doesn't sell them, they are very expensive to make), they cost me $15,000, but I have the only matched pair in the world.

Good mics are very expensive (and crucial to accurately capturing the instrument or voice), the Klaus Heyne Edition Brauners that we used on Hollywood Strings cost $25,000 each, and only 100 were ever made. Btw, there were over 50 vintage mics used on that session, and most of them would have cost between $5-15,000 each. I should add them up, I bet it is a staggering figure!

The other thing about these mics is they are mostly tube, and need to be warmed up for days if you have that luxury to really sound sweet. We powered up all the Hollywood Strings tube mics 2 days in advance for those sessions, then everything was fed through a "vintage" Neve 8078 (another discussion).

Cheers,

- DR

[interpolate]

If a microphone I had cost that much, I wouldn't even use it LOL. Well where there is quality there is money.

[wurlygreg]

Doug,

Thanks for all the info - much appreciated.

If these so-called vintage mics are producing the best sounds because they are the most accurate, then that's great. If they're somehow adding their own colour to the sound, and if this is non-linear, then I still don't fully understand why they would be used. If the colouring is perfectly linear, then the result would be identical to how the piano would have sounded if it were recorded normally with the same mics (notwithstanding sampling vs live performance discrepancies), and then I would feel pretty comfortable. However, IF the vintage mics do add "tube warmth", I'd prefer this kind of effect to be an option, not in-built into the samples. (although I understand that software may not replicate this kind of effect identically)

Note that I don't hear any problems with the demo recordings at all - they sound excellent.

Greg.

[Doug Rogers]

Originally Posted by wurlygreg

Doug,

Thanks for all the info - much appreciated.

If these so-called vintage mics are producing the best sounds because they are the most accurate, then that's great. If they're somehow adding their own colour to the sound, and if this is non-linear, then I still don't fully understand why they would be used. If the colouring is perfectly linear, then the result would be identical to how the piano would have sounded if it were recorded normally with the same mics (notwithstanding sampling vs live performance discrepancies), and then I would feel pretty comfortable. However, IF the vintage mics do add "tube warmth", I'd prefer this kind of effect to be an option, not in-built into the samples. (although I understand that software may not replicate this kind of effect identically)

Note that I don't hear any problems with the demo recordings at all - they sound excellent.

Greg.

We first listen to the sound in the studio, then the sound in the control room, then it's a matter of choosing mics that provide the best match, and usually they fall into the vintage category.

Of course all audio equipment colors the sound to some degree, and when we want that we choose that particular color, but in the case of the pianos we wanted to reproduce what we heard in the studio accurately.

Cheers,

- DR