Question regarding EWQL and Sibelius 3

[Sp3ctre18]

Ok, I'm just going to pretty much copy what I posted on some other boards. BTW, I have Sibelius 3, which can work with kontakt player, though I don't have it. The software i am planning to buy is EWQL, Cubase or Sonar, soundcard, and RAM.

I still haven't bought any of this stuff. My parents pretty much said no becasue they think I won't have time for any of it. I'll be studying aerospace or nuclear engineering in college, and that should be tough stuff and take up a lot of time, and especially if around that time I find some girl I'm interested in, I may have little time for composiing (or at least, not a lot), and not worth the $1000+ splurge. I have to agree with them on that, and I also believe it's better to wait a bit and see how college goes. However, I'm sick of just working with midi's and Sibelius 3. I want something better and I don't want to wait, so I want to see if I can try buying only EWQL, RAM, and maybe the soundcard if necessary.

So here's what I'm thinking. Sure I wanna get the better, whole bundle, which in this case would be adding the sequencer like sonar or cubase, but that can't happen *now* at least. So I broke it down into what I really wanted *now.* What's the sequencer for? Putting all the music together, recording the parts, etc, will make the process faster since I can just play on the keybord and not had to worry about staff view and messy notes due to the midi, and working with the music for best sounds, feel, tweaks, sounding pro, etc. Do I need that or want that now? Actually...no. Speed, like playing keyboard instead of clicking in notes? I can play on the keyboard and record to Sibelius. I simply don't do it becase it's messy, and all I have is staff view. If I don't need that or have sometihng better to make me not care about staff view, then I won't care about messy midis. In fact, for now, my music doesn't have to be perfect. I'm not pro, I don't even any music online anywhere, I haven't even uploaded any to my acidplanet page yet (go here if you want to check it out, have any comments, etc). In fact, at least for now, I can get some .... satisfactory results from tweaking in Sibelius (especially since i got a plugin "for gpo" that allows Sibelius to play cresendos and dimuendos on held notes). What I really want is the sounds. If those midi sounds could instead be replaced by EWQL...then that's what I really want. Not only will my music sound like it's being played by a rael orchestra, but now that it's different, and better, for some pieces I'll record myself live instead of inputting notes, and I won't mind the messy staff view.

So, I can live without the sequencer for now, and continue with Sibelius. What I would like instead, is EWQL. So, the big question: Can it be done like I want it, or close enough? I understand that at least the basic idea is possible. Sibelius has / is made to work with kontakt, so I'd jsut choose the EWQL library instead of the midi (basically; i think i'd also have to work with some other settings, mainly volume / "velocity" for example). So, what I really want to know is, once set up correctly like that, will the score playback using EWQL, just as it would play with midi? It will play the crescendos, the note start time adjustments, etc? What would be the limitations compared to what Sibelius could do with the regular midis? Like tremolos, my midi's "legato strings" (smooth string sound with slight fade in, enhances vibrato), vs it's normal strings (I only usulaly use for fast or pesante passages). Would I need a sequencer to do that? to be able to switch from the different EWQL strings sounds, or could I work that out somehow? That's what I really want to know, if by *only* buying EWQL Gold, I can get my music to *play* just as well as in Sibelius, but *sound* better with the EWQL Library.

Thanks a lot. Hope that's clear enough.

[fongi]

Hi Rhoi ! If you get yourself Gold you will definitely need some kind of sequencer if you want to change string sounds or articulations, then as you rightly say yes it will sound a bunch better than sibelius which just plays the notes to a given sound. There are people here who can go much deeper than me but I think what you are really after is some kind of DAW or seguencer to play your scores, and without the use of various articulation it´s all just gonna sound the same. By the way Gold is a pretty neat software you´ll have lots of fun for sure, and if you do meet that girl she could anyway be "high maintenance"

[mattmann13]

The Kontakt player in Sibelius is a stand-alone application that you can only load certain libraries marketed by Sibelius. You can not load ewql sounds directly into Sibelius but you can in most other notation programs - gutted. If you want to use other libraries you have to link sibelius via a vitrtual midi cable to a sequencer.

no, but seriously, you wanna be a rocket scientist?

cheers,

Matt

[Moonchilde]

You can buy Gold and use the included Kompakt player. You will need to download MIDI Yoke, a virtual MIDI cable, to link the Kompakt player to Sibelius 3.

Or, you could get Gold AND Kontakt 2, and have access to 64 MIDI channels, lots of other sounds included with K2, and uh... oh yes. Banks. Trust me, brotha, BANKS is where it is at!

Once you buy Gold and register at NI's website, you then quality for a very hefty discount for Kontakt 2. Buy Gold at the sale price and then Kontakt 2 for $269. That is about $700 roughly, and under the $1k stuff. You will still need an audio program to capture the sound. There are freebie audio editors out there you can use.

Hmm... which brings me to ask. What soundcard do you have? If you have a card that doesn't support ASIO then you're going to have a pretty poor delay time for doing your music. If you don't play, this isn't really an issue though and you can stick it out until you can afford a good card.

[Sp3ctre18]

Thanks for the replies so far, guys!

Like I said, I do plan to get a sequencer like Cubase or Sonar, but I can't get it all right now, so I want to see if I can get only EWQL, basically.

So let me get this straight, I can buy EWQL, and use MIDI Yoke, and that will allow me to use the EWQL sounds in Sibelius? But again, what limitations are there compared to sibelius? Again, I know it'd be much better to get a sequencer, and then it'll all be better, but right now, what I'm hoping I can do, is that at least it works as well Sibelius; the notes and everything play just as well in sibelius, only real difference being, no more midi sounds. The main thing I'm worried about is how there are different sound files for each instruments. In Sibelius, I can choose between two string sounds simply by adding the words "legato" (or whatever word I tell it to respond to) for the smooth sound, a nothing or "nat" to bring it back to normal. The way this works is that I have two string sounds available in the computer's midi library. So, could I do the same association with EWQL library? For example, set in sibeluis the word "legato" for "legato vibrato mf," "pesante" for "marcato medium", etc? Will EWQL show up in the sounds sets so that I can set them that way?

And, I understand Kontakt 2 is optional right? That was just your reccomendation because it's better and includes some extra sounds? If I don't need it then I probably won't get it, but if you think it'd a good idea, please explain more (for example, what's that about banks? And you say it allwos 64 midi channels; that's like saying "instruments" right? How many does the Kompakt player in EWQL allow?)

btw, it doesn't matter that I don't have the kontak player that came with / works with Sibelius, right? I don't have it, I can't remember why. didn't come with it? corrupted installtion? Been a long time, so I don't know what's the deal anymore.

Please keep in mind that this is all WITHOUT an sequencer, sicne I won't be getting that right now.

I use Audacity to record audio, and do not have a soundcard at all; it'd integrated audio, and yes, I know what you mean about the delay; it's noticeable simply when i press a key and i hear it play back on the computer.

Yes, I want to be a rocket scientist :P Or work on fusion reactors or something lol. That is, if the math doesn't kill me.

[Sp3ctre18]

just the oh-so-dreaded "bump."

[Moonchilde]

Kontakt player is seperate purchase.

All you need is Sibelius, MIDI Yoke, EWQL, and Kontakt 2. Sibelius is what you'll use to send MIDI data through MIDI Yoke to Kontakt 2, which will load all your instruments.

MIDI Yoke is free.
EWQL Gold is $365.
K2 crossgrade after EWQL registration is $269.

[Sp3ctre18]

mm, yes, thanks for the reply, but I understand that; my question was a little different:

"And, I understand Kontakt 2 is optional right? That was just your reccomendation because it's better and includes some extra sounds? If I don't need it then I probably won't get it, but if you think it'd a good idea, please explain more (for example, what's that about banks? And you say it allwos 64 midi channels; that's like saying "instruments" right? How many does the Kompakt player in EWQL allow?)"

And of course I sitll had a few other questions in there, i guess mainly if EWQL will show up as a sound set i can program to words like legato, mute, etc.

[Russell_D]

Kompakt only allows 8 midi channels / instruments. I've just gone down the K2 crossgrade route to get the full 16.

[Davo]

Actually, Kontakt will give you up to 64 midi channels to play with, but remember to split the channels over several different ports (i.e. no more than 16 channels, 1..16, per port).

One BIG caveat: Sibelius GPO does a wonderful job with crescendos etc., but this won't happen when you select midi output in Sibelius's mixer. You'll need to find some way to get around this if it's important to you. If you succeed, I'd really like to know too! [You can try one of the Sibelius plug-ins, but that used midi commands to change the volume of the whole midi channel, and you'll have to reset the volume afterwards, and that will only work in "simple" cases.] On a related note, hairpins like
pp < ff > pp
are processed correctly by Sibelius GPO without any adjustments. For normal Sibelius, or output via midi (to EWQLSO), you'll need to adjust the properties of the hairpins, which default to a 10% relative difference in volume.

Another thing you'll need to watch out for is implicit keyswitching. For example, Sibelius will automatically produce the correct sounds when you include "arco" or "pizz." in a staff for strings. To get the same result using a non-Sibelius sound library, you will probably need to either insert your own midi commands or even split the different playing styles over different staves with the appropriate instrument loaded.

Anyway, I hope that helps. I'd love to hear if anyone has a less tedious way of doing this.

Best of luck.

Regards, David
Australia